sherrand - why should we mind your signature? Also, just in case you didn't know - if you edit your signature in your profile it changes in every post you have ever made (as far as I can tell). I find this a great convenience when updating my links

purple_reading_giraffe wrote (View Post): › sherrand - why should we mind your signature? Also, just in case you didn't know - if you edit your signature in your profile it changes in every post you have ever made (as far as I can tell). I find this a great convenience when updating my links

LOL, Thanks Purp, I've edited my profile since you posted. Nothing to hide. Just burying a site I no longer sell on.

Lurkey, 211/212 the up and down continues.

purple_reading_giraffe, your fine feathered friend is monitoring this thread. Customarily, she rushes to the aide of WagglePop but for some reason decided to PM me an FYI instead of relaying the information directly. According to her, announcements were sent via e-mail to members on Saturday, May 10th. We should expect to see an increase in WagglePop conversations at all forums by mid-week.

Oh, and seller #580546 may be part of the massive drop ship listings planned for the site. The jewelry pieces can be drop shipped from http://24karatstore.com/ among other places. To view the ring in WP listing #580552 search the 24kt Store for item CR-062. Photos of flags are obvious DS inventory. I can catalog a site by myself with over 50K DS items. There's no point when buyers can find that plus millions of unique items at eBay...where they're already registered...and have a relationship...

Sellers aren't stupid. The venue went from 900+ members in 2006 to where we see it today. Ray will tell you that the community decided not to support the venue. He's right. He's had an opportunity with thousands of members. When a venue delivers, nothing anyone says can peel sellers away. Regardless what Ray sells his community to explain the deflation, sellers' experience soured them. There's a finite number of sellers willing to use small venues and he's burned through over 4K of them to a pitiful 211/212 - depending when you look at the site - ain't that right, sherrand?!!

When I read through this thread I can not help but to think that WP is moving away from the auction site format and becoming a place where drop shippers just park their product, pay 30 dollars a month, cross their fingers and hope for the best. If they arent making money, hey, it's not like they had any tangible product in inventory they needed to move, they can write it off.

I saw where one single sell has almost 20 percent of the items on WP and looking at his/her listings I have to think that is a dropper shipper also. What sane person would keep that inventory valeud at so much into a site like WP where it gathers dust?

I know that alternative sites do not generate much feedback but based on a FB score of 8 in about 10 months, assuming only 1 people in 10 left feedback, this seller has sold about 8 items per month out of an inventory of almost 20,000 items.

It seems to make the site numbers look good at least and the management over there is going to take steps to make the rest of WP the same way.

I wonder how many legitimate "sellers" there really are on WP?

Should still be considered as an "auction" site or more along the lines of a single owner dropshipper marketplace? These dropshipping numbers will only pad the site numbers even further.

I think the reason it has survived for as long as it has is by being on auction site count lists much like the one here at PSU.

New immigrants from eBay come here with their eyes wide open, see a decent amount of listings on WP, hear a few warm words and they are suckered in for 1-3 months before they realize they have been Wagglepooped.

Should what is basically a single owner's "drop site" site be on the auction site count list? It doesnt seem to meet the qualifications of a legitimate COMMUNITY marketplace or auction site.

What is everyone else's take on this?

Lou - I am a member of WP, though admittedly not a paying member. I have not received an email, so it was not a general WP membership announcement. 212 is not so many to go through. If you will tell me who you would like me to help notify, I can work on that later this week (just to try and be sure they get the word).

I too am convinced that Wagglepoop is essentially becoming a drop ship site by the management. The ring that Lurky gives as an example demonstrates this very effectively.

It's too bad that new sellers fleeing eBay are being suckered into being fleeced by sites such as Wagglepoop. It's seems almost criminal that sellers fleeing eBay because of their transition to an eMall in their new restructuring with large sellers such as Buy.com are being suckered into Wpoop (and others) who are doing the same thing -- partnering with large drop shippers at the expense of the small seller who will be buried among commercial listings. Wpooper in this case is just emulating what eBay is doing with a slightly different twist since they don't have the power of eBay to dictate terms.

While the large drop shipping operation may bring a few new viewers to the site I doubt they are going to be viable buyers, especially for the general membership. They're looking at the site offering because they're searching the web for an item and looking for the best deal. In the ring example above, the same item can be found cheaper on many sites and that's where the buyers are going to gravitate to. A few may buy the drop ship offerings without surfing around other sites, but I doubt they'll browse through general listings much at all.

purple_reading_giraffe, I'm too busy to take this on as a project, have only been notifying a couple of sellers a day. I don't use the ASQ as privacy concerns have been raised by members through the years. Rather than have communication intercepted I'm able to find most sellers at other sites.

I think the immediate target group should be sellers with less than 200 inventory items with 8 or less feedback for the last 60 days. If they're averaging a sale a week, chances are they're checking into the site regularly. If they have a couple hundred items, they probably feel like they're getting a bargain. If they're a newbie they're still excited to be part of the "revolution". The group with low inventory and no sales is likely most at risk of being out of the loop.

PatchDog, speculation that I read on another forum regarding stuffing the site with drop ship inventory is that Ray may be working on some curb appeal so he can put it on the market. A prospective buyer might believe the site well developed. Ray's logic is he knows what people are looking for and he intends to fill the gap w/ DS inventory. Kinda' hard to swallow considering the gobs and gobs of this stuff on nearly every venue. eBay can deal with it because millions of unique items break it up. The DS inventory coupled with out of the box software is what gives these small venues their generic flavor. I recently mentioned to a venue owner that only hand made, vintage and antique should be allowed on the auction platform; mass produced/DS should be relegated to store inventory and not featured on these sites.

You're right about those sellers fleeing eBay landing at PSU and other forums and being "sold" on WagglePop. mongoose, they are fleeced - often, willingly. People who've had experience with WagglePop and dare open our mouths about the history and recent or ongoing issues are tagged as horrible, hateful, stupid, jealous people bent on destroying venues. The icing on the cake is when they bring an entourage of newbie buddies - some have never sold a thing at the venue - to insult our intelligence. It's left up to the seller caught in the middle to decide if the venue might work for their business and it's natural to believe that the people who are saying what you want to hear is the right way to go. Most who try it discover pretty quickly who was feeding them a line of crapola.

I agree that a venue maintaining presence on the auction listing count because it's stuffed with DS inventory by the owner is misleading. Ray will exploit the limited qualifying criteria. Only he knows for certain which are legit sellers. The community can pretty much figure it out but with all the jukin, jivin' and juggling its a judgment call. Sellers will likely have to inform newbies that the quality of the WagglePop listing numbers is degraded and why. Which begins anew the loop of sellers bashing sites just because we're mean...and the beat goes on.

"Sellers will likely have to inform newbies that the quality of the WagglePop listing numbers is degraded and why..."

Some sellers are successful operating off the Wpoop platform. However, it's because of the effort they put into drawing traffic to their store, not because Wpoop itself has -- nor probably ever will -- become a destination portal providing strong marketing and support for their members. A prime example of this is angel; she's put a lot of effort into her store, maintains a very nice selection of merchandise and provides excellent customer service. I'm sure that there are probably a few more, who like angel have built traffic to their store through their dedicated hard efforts.

Hopefully, when potential newbies look to her and others for an evaluation of Wpoop these successful sellers will explain the combination of hard work in not only drawing traffic, but in selecting the merchandise that is successful for them in their stores. Painting a bright, positive picture of what Wpoop will provide to assist them would be disingenuous and most likely result in frustration and more discarded corpses strewn in the wake of Wpoop. Any new sellers of merchandise similar to the mass drop shipped items will automatically be doomed to failure even while Wpoop dictates the agenda and assures those who adhere to it will be winners. Only the Wpoop cult owners can possibly win in the long run.

The problem with the way the site is "bashed" is that many of the "bashers" quickly become personal and ugly, and this detracts greatly from the message. I suspect that this latest development will add some hard facts directly from the mouth of the owner that can very easily be pointed to without calling a successful seller a liar and a cheat. I thank Angel for doing the Alternative community the huge favor of posting this announcement in public view. He said / she said doesn't help much, but that piece of doublespeak is a gem.

purple_reading_giraffe, some observations and comments directed to the successful seller you refer to could probably be better phrased. But the damage of inflating seller expectations and leaving out crucial information as they're being lead to a venue that has proven - by the sheer numbers of sellers' it's spit out over the years - to be a difficult environment is almost impossible to assess.

She has repeatedly made excuses for Ray. For instance, two times since 2006 he promised to invest in advertising blitz across several media. He failed to produce. Sellers started their exit. Meanwhile, she swept the episodes under a rug and posted responses to questions that included comments such as: WagglePop sellers are smarter implying that those who saw through the b.s. and called it as it was were stupid.

Why do sellers dislike and resent this type of behavior? Because we have a very small group - out of millions and millions of sellers - that is willing to help support alternative venues. When sellers are betrayed, censored, insulted and burned by an alternative 9 out of 10 return to eBay and the entire project looses support.

Sharing your success on a site is one thing. Telling other sellers - and she's done it more than once - that they'll defiantly make money if they use WagglePop is just wrong. I don't have the posts in bookmarks and don't even remember which forum I read those responses but almost couldn't believe the audacity and pitch.

There are a lot of well seasoned and very successful sellers that are able to asses a great deal about businesses and a lot of what she has said does not track. It's not one person, or two, or three, or ten... You don't know any better than anyone else whether she's lying or telling the truth. She can say anything she wants. Sellers see and are able to asses things that are beyond the buyers experience. When more than a few say something is out of whack, it's a safe bet that something is out of whack.

That announcement would have been posted regardless. I'm glad it's posted for all the world to see. Sellers have warned for years about the double speak and dangers of dealing with WagglePop and she was kind enough to bring the proof to the table.

PRG - just a quick thought from my side of the universe....when the term 'bashing' is used, it denotes negativity without facts (for me). In theory and through the history of WP # 2, if you were to go back and conduct the research, you'd see that the personalization of the discussions did not begin with those who had departed WP. Actually, it began with those who cherish the site.

Many posts by WP supporters have since been edited or 'deleted' by the OP in an attempt to suggest otherwise, but those of us that have been around for a while saw/read/reacted to those posts.

Those burnt by WP 1 have been told:

- Get over it, that was history.
- Grow up, don't share, that's not what WP 2 is about.
- You were stupid to not give it a 2nd try.

Those who departed WP2 after little/no sales have been told:

- YOU didn't work hard enough.
- YOU are not a smart seller.
- YOU are just a troll, unintelligent or worse.

Again, the history as created tells a real and scary story about the WP experience, the passionate members and the rose-colored glasses. It's one thing for a site member to be passionate about their 'preferred home' - it's quite another for them to suggest everyone else is stupid for not following.

If you just go thru recent posts here, you can quickly see the negativity and the 'bashing' doesn't start with those of us that have been there and are sharing. It's personalized by the passionate members that want it to succeed - at any cost - to themselves and other sellers.

I see what you are saying. The basic point of my post was that, unfortunately, that less visible history colored the tones of the posts and lent credence to the impression of simple bashing. I think the underlying problem is speaking to the person one is arguing against directly rather than speaking to the audience that is also reading. It was meant as a constructive observation for future use in future go-rounds, provided this site does not fully implode from these most recent changes.

I do not regret that I did not instantly jump on the anti-WP bandwagon, but I do not believe I jumped on the pro-WP bandwagon, either. My separate research found that WP has some functionality difficulties, but apparently no worse than most alt sites. My separate research found that many new sellers were quite pleased with the listing software, and many others had some problems other users helped them with. My separate research also found that by many independent measures, WP's SEO is better than most of the alt sites. I have not been able to figure out why that is, though I have been able to point to a few obvious SEO problems at a few other sites (poor page titles being the most obvious to me).

*added for clarity* On Wagglepop forums, I have been disturbed by the "all your fault" mantra that I have seen briefly expressed here and there, and currently. I have seen a search problem I pointed out fixed... sort of. I have not seen a cumbersome check-out procedure and a lack of email alerts on winning an auction that I pointed out fixed. I have seen several different sellers on WP jump in to help new folks in a friendly and professional way. I have seen that certain sellers, besides the one we have been discussing, have been there for a long time (relatively) and I drew the conclusion they must have a reason to stay. I have seen that my observation - that the very in-your-face be-a-seller-on-WP ads on my auctions management page were rather off-putting to a buyer only - was completely ignored. These various observations added up to a mixed bag that never got me "off the fence".

I am also aware that TIAS and RubyLane have fee structures that are approximately as onerous as WP's new one, but refrained from mentioning that as those sites carry a much better reputation for STR, and those sites do not, at least, engage in flagrant doublespeak. It is very gratifying to have the words from the horse's mouth posted here for all to see.

Data that can be independently verified by onlookers is the most useful and convincing, IMO. However, maintaining a watch on sites with a history of poor behavior and posting that there may be issues, and information about what to look out for, can be a great public service. I commend the lot of you for taking the time to issue these warnings. I might not have taken the time to join the site and read the forums were it not for the controversy, and might therefore have remained blissfully unaware of what to look out for.

I still don't know if this new fee structure may actually be a benefit to the long-time, successful WP sellers. I'm nearly certain that it can't be to the new ones. I was hoping that future searches and comparisons to current statistics might answer these questions, but I think it will be difficult to winnow out real data. Keeping an eye on the number of stores may turn out to be useless if the drop-shipping is made to look the same as the independent sellers. However, a look at the member since dates might clarify things. I doubt the number of listings search will help at all.

I also wonder how long it will be before my WP account is suspended, as it is more than obvious who I am.

PRG --

While I agree that ad hominem arguing is counterproductive I also submit that it's up to those who have "been there, done that" to disclose that there is another reality behind those fanciful facades put up by less than ethical venue operators operating with hidden personal agendas. Likewise, it's imperative that people with broad experience in both buying and selling online offer their perspective as to sites when pronouncements are made that attempt to hide reality behind doublespeak.

This forum is to assist each other in evaluating venues by sharing both experiences and opinions to provide those seeking new venues with a wealth of information before making a decision of participation. If after all available information and opinions are laid bare objectively without ad hominem arguing amongst the participating members, and an individual elects to join a venue -- such as Wagglepop in this case -- we should all wish them the best of success in their venture.

I too wonder how long before I'm excommunicated from WP; although my WP identity is a little more difficult to ascertain from this forum.

The biggest shock to me about this whole Wagglepop fiasco is that the sellers are not up in arms at the thought of Ray dropshipping products on the site. If these sellers were on eBay, and eBay started opening stores and dropshipping products, these sellers would be livid and be filing complaints with every state's attorney general for antitrust actions.

But since buying into the "it's their fault" philosophy of Wagglepop, the sellers are absolutely blinded by this.

Would a Wagglepop supporter be willing answer this? Why would you support a site owner who is planning to list massive numbers of items to be in competition with sellers? And please, don't reply that he says he won't be competing with current sellers. He also said he was going to wait until September to announce this and that Wagglepop Checkout was coming back in 2006.

To me, it seems like Ray is doing the same thing that everyone complained about with eBay's padded SDC listings a couple months back, except this is even worse since they can actually be purchased from the site.

One last point... Ray has been racking up thousands of dollars in fees on eBay for the last 6+ months. All this money came probably came directly from Wagglepop fees. Everyone has already been shown proof that Ray's eBay sales are fact, so now who could honestly trust him to do the right thing with a dropshipper on Wagglepop? If he can sell dropshipped items on WP, why not sell his own magazine pictures? Simply put, Ray knows little to nothing about selling online. He knows nothing about eCommerce. His only experience selling on eBay gathered less than 2,000 feedbacks in 6 years. One WP seller has even done better than that in 2 years. So, all Wagglepop sellers are placing their $30 in an owner's account who barely sold on eBay, but can tell them exactly how to run their business successfully.

A site like Bidtopia is at least operated by a huge ex-eBay seller who can tout their experience in business. Overstock was backed by a corporation and a high traffic site. Ubid offers the opportunity to sell on their site as well, along with Buy.com, NewEgg, Amazon, not to mention all the media sites like Alibris and Abe. All these companies are on the top 500 internet retailers list. Wagglepop? An owner who can't make up his mind if he wants sellers, his eBay Store, or his own dropshipping site.

If anyone else falls into the con of Wagglepop, it is their own fault. There is far too much information to be found... just search "Wagglepop" on Google, and it's on the first couple pages. Of course, the second result displayed today is to "MeowsNBarks" a store I know closed up well over a year ago. So much for great rankings to all the founding members.

There really is life after eBay, but it certainly isn't there.