PayPal Policy undermines terms of your auction

#1

When you agreed to accept PayPal, you agreed to the terms of its agreement. According to PayPal, the SELLER is responsible for the item to arrive as described. If the buyer refuses insurance, it is still THE SELLER’S responsibility. PayPal’s agreement with the Seller supercedes your agreement with the BUYER. As a result, the BUYER has 45 days from the payment date to decide if the item is “as described” and file a dispute. Then the BUYER has 20 more days to escalate it to a claim. In short, the SELLER is guaranteeing the item is as described for up to 65 days. If the BUYER files a “not as described” claim, PayPal policy is TO RULE IN FAVOR OF THE BUYER. The terms and condition of your auction, whatever proof provided to dispute the claim, DOES NOT MATTER as the BUYER WINS. PayPal advises the BUYER to pay for shipping the item back to the SELLER. Once PayPal receives proof that the Seller has received the item, it will sweep your account to refund the buyer for the total invoice price, including the initial shipping. Again, the terms of your auction DOES NOT MATTER. PayPal then claims it has an appeal process if the item does not arrive in substantially the same condition as sold. The appeal process is a sham. No matter what condition it arrives, PayPal will not overturn it decision. In fact, the Buyer is NOT even responsible for damages incurred in sending the item back to the SELLER.

#2

not2ys wrote (View Post): ›

When you agreed to accept PayPal, you agreed to the terms of its agreement. According to PayPal, the SELLER is responsible for the item to arrive as described. If the buyer refuses insurance, it is still THE SELLER’S responsibility. PayPal’s agreement with the Seller supercedes your agreement with the BUYER. As a result, the BUYER has 45 days from the payment date to decide if the item is “as described” and file a dispute. Then the BUYER has 20 more days to escalate it to a claim. In short, the SELLER is guaranteeing the item is as described for up to 65 days. If the BUYER files a “not as described” claim, PayPal policy is TO RULE IN FAVOR OF THE BUYER. The terms and condition of your auction, whatever proof provided to dispute the claim, DOES NOT MATTER as the BUYER WINS. PayPal advises the BUYER to pay for shipping the item back to the SELLER. Once PayPal receives proof that the Seller has received the item, it will sweep your account to refund the buyer for the total invoice price, including the initial shipping. Again, the terms of your auction DOES NOT MATTER. PayPal then claims it has an appeal process if the item does not arrive in substantially the same condition as sold. The appeal process is a sham. No matter what condition it arrives, PayPal will not overturn it decision. In fact, the Buyer is NOT even responsible for damages incurred in sending the item back to the SELLER.

It has been like that for a long time now, for most sellers on ebay the basic rule is if a buyer says I don't like the colour, or I don't like the size even though it was stated in the listing, or whatever other reason they come up with, the seller just says return it and you will be refunded.

You have no rights on ebay, you have no policies on ebay, you have no terms on ebay, and I don't think I have bothered adding them for the last two years, other than the "please read the listing" carp that they don't read either.

Where once there was buyer beware, there is now buyer be as ignorant as you wish, what does it cost you if you are.

#3

How did you find out about this. I have been a buyer on Ebay since 1997. I didn't know that insurance was NOT required. And I could send anything back if I didn't like it, regardless of the terms of the auction. As a Seller, I just found out about this policy. Ebay holds it self out as a vehicle for sales by individual merchants. Yet it controls the terms and condition of every aution through PayPal. Ebay has the obligation to make this know to everyone.

#4

Ebay has not been known for their transparency
or ethics, so people just have to find out on their own,
or really read the UA's and SEE
what a convoluted trap it really is.

An educated consumer is eFraud's worse nightmare. lol

#5

not2ys wrote (View Post): ›
How did you find out about this. I have been a buyer on Ebay since 1997. I didn't know that insurance was NOT required. And I could send anything back if I didn't like it, regardless of the terms of the auction. As a Seller, I just found out about this policy. Ebay holds it self out as a vehicle for sales by individual merchants. Yet it controls the terms and condition of every aution through PayPal. Ebay has the obligation to make this know to everyone.

picked it up through experience, as most people selling used goods did, it was a case of the buyer would contact you and say something that was stated in your listing. We would respond with, "it was stated in the listing."
They would go to paypal and paypal staff do not know how to read or something, as they ignored terms, descriptions, images, even statements in their own messaging system from the buyer, that confirmed what what we said.

The added bonus for them now is they can also put in an ebay not as described claim and these seem to be classed as worse than a negative feedback by ebay.

So the answer to us was just to say send it back and you will be refunded, and as stated on PSU several times, supply our own KY lubricant.

#6

Not2ys... The Terms of Service is very revealing. I wont accept paypal because they dont take on ONE lick of liability. They want to push it all on to me.

#7

not2ys wrote (View Post): ›
How did you find out about this. I have been a buyer on Ebay since 1997. I didn't know that insurance was NOT required. And I could send anything back if I didn't like it, regardless of the terms of the auction. As a Seller, I just found out about this policy. Ebay holds it self out as a vehicle for sales by individual merchants. Yet it controls the terms and condition of every aution through PayPal. Ebay has the obligation to make this know to everyone.

There is another thing you want to think about when using paypal. Ebay shops do not take paypal payments, the head of ebay Germany, when selling on ebay would only take paypal if people sent in copies of a passport and a couple of bills, or something, and also if you have a paypal merchant account they also do not allow you to pay for your account through paypal.

So the people that are claiming you and the buyer should have total faith in the system, have none whatsoever. Go figure...

#8

Why is this a surprise? We read all about this in the user agreement when we signed up to use ebay and PayPal. Didn't anyone else read the user agreements before they clicked yes?

#9

I have to laugh when I see lengthy listings with conditions of sale etc & then say Paypal only

People the moment you accept Paypal anything in your t&c means nothing, as you are now in the World of chargebacks, payment reversals, echecks etc etc

Paypal will always give buyers their money back even when you specify “seller is not responsible for loss or postal damage please use insurance”….or the infamous “all sales are final no returns”

All the crap about the ebay listing being a contract is pure that…..crap, unless of course you have $$$$ to fight in the courts

eBay Inc a complete Joke & people pay for the privilege ..LOL

**#10**

terryp wrote (View Post): › All the crap about the ebay listing being a contract is pure that…..crap, unless of course you have $$$$ to fight in the courts

We think a better question is, is any contract dominant?

Legally the ebay user agreement (contract) sets the rules for using ebay, and the PayPal user agreement (contract) sets the rules for using PayPal, and our credit card merchant agreement sets additional rules for accepting credit cards through them. For us to operate our business on ebay we have to stay within those user agreements. Same for selling other sites. Plus we as a business have to remain within the other legal agreements we have entered into to buy stock, rent commercial space, use UPS or FEDEX, and all the rest. We think balancing, bad choice of words we know, those agreements starts with reading and then understanding them. And it really seems like no one does that by the surprise sellers have when parts of those contracts are enforced.

**#11**

not2ys wrote (View Post): ›
...Yet it controls the terms and condition of every aution through PayPal. Ebay has the obligation to make this know to everyone.

What are terms and conditions ? What is it ? Who works with eBay and PayPal doesn't has any rights !
Welcome to the nightmare ! Read more the posts on the PSU forums and you will find what are ebay and paypal !

One more thing to you: When a buyer open a claim against a seller regarding a possible fake item and the buyer got a letter from a reseller and send to paypal, they make a full refund to the buyer but ask to send the merchandise to them.
Anyway, the point is: Where did goes the product? The merchandise never return to the seller. What PayPal make with the merchandise received? This is a great mystery !!!!

It happened between me and a seller with an iPhone. Seller sent me several emails asking about the return of the product. I sent many emails to PayPal and never received any explanation !

**#12**

Well, lets see.

I won't accept PayPals ludicrous terms so I don't use them. Simple, but not an option for some. Unfortunately.

I've never lost a Credit Card chargeback yet and it's been 10 years using a Merchant Account. Those terms I can accept.

Now I'm off to touch wood Wink

**#13**

Purple Star... you are absolutely correct EXCEPT... Nowhere in Ebay's or PayPay contracts do they say: Buyers need not pay for insurance because it is the Seller's responsibility. Buyers you have 45 days to decide if the merchandise is as described otherwise you can send the items back. Sellers: There are no terms or conditions for the sale of your merchandise. PayPal dictates these terms. It's like shopping at a department store where there is a return policy. You return the merchandise and your credit card say NO NO NO ... we do not recognize returns. Please look at our 20 page agreement in 8 point font and somewhere you may find this fact. I have read these agreements over and over....and it's not there. I am filing a complaint because under US Federal and State laws, misrepresentation includes failing to disclose, or omissions of, material facts. Every seller I have contacted doesn't know about these terms. And as a Buyer, I want my money back for all the insurance costs I paid.