Metzymom,

I did not ask as to your employment status with OLA, my question to you was on a personal level, I asked for your opinion on the misinformation and misrepresentation on the site, I will go further, on the sites front page it displays OLA has 17,807,442 current items listed. But most of your listings are in the Sports Memorabilia category where many auctions shows quantities of 100 and more. OLA then counts the same card 100 times as individual items thus making the count artificially higher than it actually is, this is a misrepresentation of the actual individual listings on the site, in other words OLA has cleverly used the term "item" to compensate for the lack of listings on the site. I would like your comment on this.

I can comment on that... It's the same thing Gerald Parker did at BV when he was trying to sell the site. An item count vs a listing count are two completely different animals. An item count will take one dutch auction offering 100 items bringing the total number of "items" up when in actuality it's just one auction. Most sites count listings, and that's what people expect when they look at the numbers. When they don't look closely enough they are led to believe that the site has more listings than it actually does.

I second both sides of this argument. OLA has a long history of promising improvements that do not materialize in the time frame given. My solution to that is to suggest that people choose or do not choose to use OLA based on its current features, not any anticipated ones.

While it is true that paying up-front a year's fee to obtain a store and a bulklister seems unreasonably greedy to me, and that I think the verified buyer program also feels unnecessarily grasping, there are those who may prefer a one time payment with unlimited listing capabilities. This format also frees OLA from wanting to worry about how final sales are made because they already have their money, so sellers and buyers are free to make whatever arrangements they wish and sellers are free to use the site to link to items or stores that are hosted on other sites, a rarity in the alternatives who mostly have adopted ebay's restrictive TOS in this area.

OLA also has a google page rank of 5 which is better than many other alternative sites (mostly smaller ones) listed at auctionnews.org's sitewatch.

My main problem is the way in which discussions of OLA seem to degenerate so quickly at PSU. I don't feel that to call those people who have a positive experience to share at any particular venue fools, and kool-aid drinkers, and cheerleaders is productive at all. I also don't think that to imply that those who are dissatisfied with their experience using any particular venue are in some way incompetent or lazy is productive either. I am more impressed by those that discuss the issues, their opinions and impressions, and forgo the drama. There are a few who like OLA and spring to its defense, as there are a few who appear so unhappy with their experience that they can let no positive comment go unanswered.

I am aware that there is a long history for OLA and a LOT of information available here and elsewhere for folks to research before trying the site. However, due to the nature of forums and the internet, fresh information is more readily heeded. So both sides need to feel free to have their say without the argument becoming personal almost every single time. And to my observation, it is almost always the people who feel that OLA is NOT a good choice that are the first ones to call names and impugn the character and motives of those who report that they are pleased with OLA. This is not to say that I think those with negatives to share should not state those negative points, but I would hope they would strive to do so without inflaming the discussion with personal attacks.

I see both positives and negatives with OLA as an alternative venue. I see that some seem to do well there and are happy to have found the place. I see that the site itself is not able to provide exceptional or even very good exposure of its sellers' items.

I see that a Google Base Feed was promised and has apparently been made available for sellers to use themselves, though I am only barely informed on this subject at this time. However, I believe that individual submission by stores to googlebase may be how ebay does it (or maybe it's an option), and seems to give a small preference in Google Product Search returns over site-wide submissions, and is how BISI does it. However, I don't think that providing a CSV is going to meet the needs of a lot of sellers, though there are some OLA sellers who are listed in Google Products right now, so seem to be using this tool.

I have heard that the bulklister is difficult to use and many sellers end up doing cut-and-paste of listings to move them, even those with long experience at OLA. I have also seen some say they like listing at OLA, though I have also seen much higher praise for the formats of some other sites.

I have nothing to report on the current condition of search or shopping on the site as I have been generally inactive in all the alt stuff since June. However, I have observed that OLA seems to be showing up better in Google web search than was the case earlier this year, and I did observe changes occurring to how Google perceived page titles and such in May or June, so I can confirm that work of some sort has been done in Google search visibility.

My personal impression of OLA is that promises should be taken with a grain of salt and not be figured in to anyone's business plan. The fact that the verified buyer program has not been changed one iota despite numerous well-reasoned protests gives me the strong impression that a source of income is more important than the users' experiences. I cannot tell why some do well and some do so very badly, but almost any alt will draw little to no buyer traffic on its own, most seems to come from buyers finding an item they are looking for with some other means of searching, be that search engines, shopping sites, or social bookmarking, so OLA is not alone in requiring self-promotion. I also get the impression that OLA tends to consistently "miss the boat" for whatever reason.

I am aware that OLA talks on the front page about the total number of items available. While most out-of-the-box sites only mention listings, there are several "independent" sites that I have come across (SportLots.com and AtomicAvenue.com to mention a couple I visited just yesterday) talk about total items. I also will note, yet again for those new to this furor, that anytime one browses a category or puts in a search at OLA, the number of LISTINGS is prominently displayed at the top of that page. As far as I've seen, the number of items only appears on the home page and is, IMO, a fair marketing tactic. And I note that this is one of the most common complaints about OLA seen on these boards, many times explained and answered.

My bottom-line advice to any seller considering which alts to try is that if you decide to try OLA you do so at $8 a month to find out how the back-end works for you, and you consider if the items you sell, or related ones, seem to do well there and if there is room for your items in that market. Do not expect that OLA, just because it is larger in terms of listings, will automatically attract buyers en-masse and be another eBay. It won't. But then again, neither will iOffer or Craigslist or eCrater.

P.S. I am personally glad that MetzyMom has found some success with her excellent soaps at OLA. With such a good product, though, I suspect she could find success in many venues. I am personally sorry that others of the Feb and May ebay exoduses did not find that OLA meets their needs, and that they felt they relied on promised improvements that failed to materialize in the ways and timeframe that they expected. And I suggest to you folks that Bonanzle and AtomicMall, fledgling sites though they are, may be well worth looking at to expand your online presence.

Regarding sellers needing to upload to Google Base on their own and eBay's handling of this - I found this post just now and it seems eBay does leave it up to the seller to upload their own items...
http://www.powersellersunite.com/viewtopic.php?t=19632&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=15#177977

"I don't feel that to call those people who have a positive experience to share at any particular venue fools, and kool-aid drinkers, and cheerleaders is productive at all. I also don't think that to imply that those who are dissatisfied with their experience using any particular venue are in some way incompetent or lazy is productive either. I am more impressed by those that discuss the issues, their opinions and impressions, and forgo the drama. There are a few who like OLA and spring to its defense, as there are a few who appear so unhappy with their experience that they can let no positive comment go unanswered."

Hi PRG,

Just in case you are referring to my use of the word fool, I was responding to this post, which happens to also be the first time the word was used in this thread...

http://www.powersellersunite.com/viewtopic.php?t=22357&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0#204697

Here's my response to the above post...

http://www.powersellersunite.com/viewtopic.php?t=22357&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=15&sid=af8def2e6d0e64dc2052a0e4e1d5513e#204756

So, just to clarify, part of your comment (in bold above) does not accurately portray the situation in which the word fool was used in this thread, not when you are referring to it being used against those posters who are sharing their positive experiences at OLA. In fact, the idea that OLA members can't come here and post anything positive is a rather skewed view of reality. I have not seen that happen here. If you want to honestly assess the entire situation it might be helpful to read Metzys first post in each thread where OLA (the site, not the members) is being discussed in a less than positive light. Such discussion is not tolerated at OLA, so it's no surprise to see a higher percentage of negative threads in this forum.


You forgot the word troll. It's widely used both here and on the OLA boards.

I would still like a clarification from Metzymom as to what specifically she's accusing me of doing.

Being accused of something untoward in a public forum is a little disconcerting...especially when it isn't made clear exactly what the "something" is.

Metzy, would you care to respond?

Being accused of something untoward in a public forum is a little disconcerting..

I feel your pain. The same tactic was used against me.

Cuff, please excuse me for picking the wrong pejorative and sticking it in the wrong place in my attempted plea for rational discussion. I could just as well put "fool" in with incompetent and lazy. I wrote that treatise after reading several current OLA threads. I was not attempting to speak only about this thread, but a pattern I have watched with dismay for quite some time. The name-calling goes on all over this forum. It is disheartening. And you are not one I think of when I think about namecallers, so if you thought I meant you in particular, I apologize. I am dismayed to see Metzy feeling so defensive that she is currently flying off the handle all over the place. I am rather used to seeing those that are extremely angry with OLA be about as polite to OLA users as many who are fed-up with eBay are considerate of folks like Gael and cohibastore. The consistency of the personalization of the issues is my issue. I have a feeling you don't care much for it either.

AtomicMall.com wrote (View Post): › METZYMOM wrote (View Post): › Among the things OLA gets slammed for, is the pulling of posts. Yet every site has a disclaimer that says they can and will do it. I have been personally slammed for asking for a peaceful outcome here, and yet the same people who tell me where to stuff it, applauded the guy who did EXACTLY the same thing over at AM... Excuse me, but by "AM", I assume you're referring to my site? And by "the guy", I assume you're referring to me? What exactly are you accusing me of? I'm more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings, but first I need to know exactly what they are. Please enlighten me. Thanks, Mike

Mike, what I was referring to was that there are rules of conduct at AM too, whereas OLA gets slammed for theirs. Every site has ROC. I used you as an example, that's all. I also used you as an example in reference to the post you did asking your members to stay on track and discuss AM and AM related things VS dissing other sites (in the post I read it just happened to be about OLA... I only saw the post because someone emailed it to me).
I think AM is going to be awesome. I'd actually consider selling there as another site in my arsenal, but as we can see from how well I am received here, that just isn't going to happen. Pity too, because I really like the format and the site as a whole. As a matter of fact, I sent one of my friends there to sign up a couple days ago. I don't know if he did, but for what he wanted to do (eCommerce-wise), I felt that AM had the better deal for him. I won't say who it is, and I cautioned him not to use my name at the door... lol... or in the chats. He's a nice guy and deserves a chance. He's new to eCommerce... has never sold before. I gave him a fair and honest run down on the most popular sites, and yours was the one I thought would be the best fit. I hope that was okay with you... I'm not nearly as evil as some here would imply...
I think it's rather funny that I did an "ATTA BOY" about you at OLA and no one here reported it... in truth, I think you're pretty awesome. I have told numerous folks who weren't happy at eBay and at OLA (and here too) that if they don't like the way sites are run, they should start their own. I think you deserve all kinds of applause for actually doing it!!! You not only started a site, but you are going to last long past the time when you aren't the 'flavor of the month'. I think you and your site have a real shot in the eCommerce market, and I really wish you well.

METZYMOM wrote (View Post): › I believe that those who are trashing it here and at the OLA site itself are going to be wanting to sell there one day soon... .

Well Metzy let me tell you this, I would set my entire inventory in my yard with a big By Donation sign before I would list on OLA. I would make more with a by donations sale then the majority of sellers ever make at Fain's debacle.

Debacle: disastrous collapse, downfall, or defeat; a rout. A total, often ludicrous failure = the definition of OLA.

METZYMOM wrote (View Post): › AtomicMall.com wrote (View Post): › METZYMOM wrote (View Post): › Among the things OLA gets slammed for, is the pulling of posts. Yet every site has a disclaimer that says they can and will do it. I have been personally slammed for asking for a peaceful outcome here, and yet the same people who tell me where to stuff it, applauded the guy who did EXACTLY the same thing over at AM... Excuse me, but by "AM", I assume you're referring to my site? And by "the guy", I assume you're referring to me? What exactly are you accusing me of? I'm more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings, but first I need to know exactly what they are. Please enlighten me. Thanks, Mike Mike, what I was referring to was that there are rules of conduct at AM too, whereas OLA gets slammed for theirs. Every site has ROC. I used you as an example, that's all. I also used you as an example in reference to the post you did asking your members to stay on track and discuss AM and AM related things VS dissing other sites (in the post I read it just happened to be about OLA... I only saw the post because someone emailed it to me). I think AM is going to be awesome. I'd actually consider selling there as another site in my arsenal, but as we can see from how well I am received here, that just isn't going to happen. Pity too, because I really like the format and the site as a whole. As a matter of fact, I sent one of my friends there to sign up a couple days ago. I don't know if he did, but for what he wanted to do (eCommerce-wise), I felt that AM had the better deal for him. I won't say who it is, and I cautioned him not to use my name at the door... lol... or in the chats. He's a nice guy and deserves a chance. He's new to eCommerce... has never sold before. I gave him a fair and honest run down on the most popular sites, and yours was the one I thought would be the best fit. I hope that was okay with you... I'm not nearly as evil as some here would imply... I think it's rather funny that I did an "ATTA BOY" about you at OLA and no one here reported it... in truth, I think you're pretty awesome. I have told numerous folks who weren't happy at eBay and at OLA (and here too) that if they don't like the way sites are run, they should start their own. I think you deserve all kinds of applause for actually doing it!!! You not only started a site, but you are going to last long past the time when you aren't the 'flavor of the month'. I think you and your site have a real shot in the eCommerce market, and I really wish you well.

Metzy, do you really think that anyone here cares if you sell at Atomic Mall or not? Do you think that people would track you down at Atomic Mall and try to destroy your inventory? sales? contacts? Give me a break woman. Who has time to chase you around? Who cares if you sell at AM?

Interesting that you refer to your selling venues as an arsenal.

arsenal, noun, A governmental establishment for the storing, development, manufacturing, testing, or repairing of arms, ammunition, and other war material.

AtomicMall.com wrote (View Post): › I would still like a clarification from Metzymom as to what specifically she's accusing me of doing. Being accused of something untoward in a public forum is a little disconcerting...especially when it isn't made clear exactly what the "something" is. Metzy, would you care to respond?

Good luck with trying to get clarification from MetzyMom.

Best of luck with Atomic Mall, it is a great looking site.

Hi PRG,

Thanks for that explanation. I know that your comments were meant to calm the waters, and I can appreciate that. And, yes, sometimes I cringe at the unnecessary name-calling and back out of obvious bashing threads. Even so, I have been accused of saying and doing things that I am not guilty of. That's why I felt am compelled to clarify on my end. More than anything else I recognise that OLA users are being victimized, and they are not to blame for anything going on at OLA. I have used the term cheerleaders because for me it's the perfect word to describe the actions of a few. People who do that don't realize that they are standing in the way of improvements. They stand like a shield between Fain and his disgruntled founding members. Metzy doesn't seem to understand that she's part of the reason there's been no progress. Fain is not held accountable because everyone who might turn the tide on his game is attacked by cheerleaders like Metzy. Thankfully, she's pretty much alone in her attacks now. The tide is turning. Anyway, no hard feelings over here.

Good morning.

I am not here to add my opinion or to fight with anyone.

@purple_reading_giraffe

Quote: › OLA also has a google page rank of 5

Would you mind telling me where you get this information? Thank you in advance.

Free Tool: http://www.prchecker.info/check_page_rank.php