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Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some?
 
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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:16 pm   Post subject:  Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some? #1  Back to top 

I have seen a lot of "bashers" on other forums saying that Wagglepop is a cult. One recently even went so far as to post these "warning signs":

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives

Can Wagglepop, a mere marketplace, really be convincingly accused of CULT status? Are these detractors just jealous? They certainly seem to "have it in" for Wagglepop, and seem dead set on dragging all kinds of old history up. I wonder if they have nothing more important to do!

I wish all of you (Wagglepop sellers) the best as you move forward with your restructuring. I sincerely hope many of you find the new fee structure to be simpler and more beneficial to your businesses. I look forward to the integrated shopping cart and the satellite niche sites, should you all decide to support such an expansion.

Best Regards,
purple_reading_giraffe
Supporter of eCommerce
and occasional buyer

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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:20 pm   Post subject:   #2  Back to top 

Ah, well, already gone and with no constructive discussion of the merits.

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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:25 pm   Post subject:   #3  Back to top 

Please contact Customer Care.

Reasons for this message to appear include:

* We are unable to authenticate your registration information fully, and need more information.
* Your IP Address and registration information do not match.
* For your protection, we have locked the account for suspicious bidding or buying activity.
* User Agreement violation or multiple violations.

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itschucker
Total posts: 14

USA US California
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:37 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #4  Back to top 

purple- as I read through the 7 questions, I can't help from getting the same answer for each ... ebay! Is it just me?

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mongoose
Total posts: 1963

USA US Colorado
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:05 pm   Post subject:   #5  Back to top 

Purple -- "For your protection, we have locked the account for suspicious bidding or buying activity."

At least you received a "courtesy email." I was apparently excommunicated in absentia!


itschucker - "...I can't help from getting the same answer for each ... ebay! Is it just me?"

Yepper...certainly seems to the the case. There's a fine line between idealism and reality..eBay crossed that line years ago. They just have more polish than the head pooper and their coven is not so apparent.

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2BOYSandTOYS
Location: Kansas
Total posts: 9369

USA US Kansas
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:46 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #6  Back to top 

Excuse me, but did you call me a 'basher' above PRG? Just a thought - this is exactly how the division of sellers come to be. I posted the above list in reference to another post, in a completely different context than how this may appear here as a stand-alone.

So, what exactly is your point? Do you wish to really discuss Wagglepop as a cult, cult behavior and/or ???

I do take exception to that word being used, in reference to ANY member, not just myself. That word/name suggests (per definition):

1: to strike violently : hit; also : to injure or damage by striking : smash —often used with in

2: to attack physically or verbally <media> <celebrity>intransitive verb


Why would you suggest that others who speak out against a site are 'bashers'? I'm not surprised that post was removed so quickly - there was a tone that seemed to intend to provoke emotion and opinions. Neither of those are allowed on WP.

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2BOYSandTOYS
Location: Kansas
Total posts: 9369

USA US Kansas
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:03 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #7  Back to top 

Assuming the whole country has the same shows on the same day, Dr. Phil's show today is on identifying cults...FYI for anybody interested! Very Happy Very Happy

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sherrand
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Total posts: 133

Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:08 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #8  Back to top 

PRG, did you not realize that a post such as that would have you ex-communicated from WP faster than a speeding bullet?

Or was this an experiment for you? Rolling Eyes

No one is allowed to tarnish the inner sanctum of the Poop community.

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mongoose
Total posts: 1963

USA US Colorado
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:14 pm   Post subject:   #9  Back to top 

2Boys - PRG wrote it with quotes in order to post it on the WP boards in an attempt to have it last more than a few seconds. By adding the qualifications it was hoped that the post would be viewed as pro-pooper while subtly getting a message across.

I think that if you read other posts by PRG on this topic she is in agreement with you. She was trying to pull a fast one on the pooper boards and essentially was excommunicated for it.

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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:04 pm   Post subject:   #10  Back to top 

Mongoose Very Happy

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sherrand
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Total posts: 133

Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:20 pm   Post subject:   #11  Back to top 

mongoose wrote (View Post): › 2Boys - PRG wrote it with quotes in order to post it on the WP boards in an attempt to have it last more than a few seconds. By adding the qualifications it was hoped that the post would be viewed as pro-pooper while subtly getting a message across.

I think that if you read other posts by PRG on this topic she is in agreement with you. She was trying to pull a fast one on the pooper boards and essentially was excommunicated for it.


Mongoose, I agree with your reasoning and PRG seems to have endorsed it but thinking that a 'subtle' approach would fall under the radar of WP censorship was a fool's mission. It has been stated over and over on PSU and other forums that there is zero tolerance for any criticism of WP management no matter how much a post is laced with a coating of sugar.

So...PRG, did you spring for a new ID before you bit the bullet? Laughing

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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:33 pm   Post subject:   #12  Back to top 

LOL- nope - but that's ok Wink

I have finished collecting all the stores and links and IDs and 4 have disappeared since I started, and one has appeared.

I have called one who says he thinks $30 is fine and that BuyItSellIt doesn't have "his sort of stuff" - I sat here and blinked to myself a lot. I suggested he pass the word and clarified that he has NOT been informed except via forum attendance. He agreed that sellers should have the information available to make good business decisions before the fee hike occurs.

The thought occurs that smart as Erin is, she was assisting my pose.

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thekatyworkshop
Location: Illinois
Total posts: 335

USA US Illinois
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:04 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #13  Back to top 

Not sure how much of a "cult" it is, but I can tell you that management apparently has a deep-rooted fear of success.

They are becoming distinctly more like eBay, all the while claiming they are not. Posts that are not glowing and rosy, or in agreement with all they are doing are now removed. So much for free speech.

Sellers have been openly treated very rudely in the last couple months, with sharp tones, warning emails (their version of a pink slap - does that mean if you get one, you've been "popped"?), general hostility if you dare to question them.

WP expects their sellers to just know what to do, esp on paying their invoices. They don't take into consideration that the eBay refugees are used to money being sucked out of their accounts, so wait for the invoice to be auto-paid. Of course, WP doesn't do the autopay deal (yet). It has been one of their main excuses to boot sellers out of the place. They have closed SO many stores in the last few months, mostly claiming non-payment. So, does that mean WP attracts deadbeats, or that WP is doing a poor job of educating their new sellers? I vote for the latter. Few sellers want to spend time loading a store with merchandise only to walk away from it.

If you ask about it, WP has the same old tired song - "we are tired of the 30-60-90 day sellers", meaning the ones who only give it 1, 2 or 3 months before leaving. Well, that really isn't the real problem there. There are many sellers leaving this year, BEFORE the fee increases, simply because there isn't the traffic or sales to support staying there.

Every time I read the posts from admins, I can't help but think of the Wizard of Oz, and the little man saying "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

I've had an extra store there since 2006 (and yes, I was one who tried the failed 2005 outing too). The new pricing structure is pretty steep for stores with few sales - when I asked if I could keep my account to use for buying should I choose to close my store (I wanted to keep my 100% feedback there) , I was told that my feedback was a "privilege for loyal sellers", and that I'd have to start with a new account if I wanted to buy. Mind you, I've bought AND sold on my current account, but that doesn't matter to WP!

Also, they are having SEVERE search engine problems. When there was a thread with info about it, and people posting their experience with a certain key word search, it was removed by admin as being "anti-community". Um, not really, when search results are the bread-n-butter of the selling community!

Every question is taken as hostile, so it would seem. Don't question anything, don't suggest an improvement or easier way to do something either!

Sellers have been waiting well over a YEAR for additional needed categories. ALWAYS, the excuse is that they haven't had the funds to pay for the category additions on the programming part. Okaaaaayyyy - since you have the entire structure in place, it really can't be that hard to set up another category and assign a different identifier to it. I am not a programming dummy, but admin hopes that everyone is.

I for one, am sick to pieces of being told that there will be no advertising again, being told it is my problem if WP doesn't have any traffic, and that the sellers should be bringing over more people, and listing more things so the site will attract more business.

I've been struggling along at their old rate, most months not even making the rent, but it was still exposure. I had no idea that the real reason so few people buy there is that they cannot FIND anything that is already for sale there. On the above-mentioned store search, I tried my own store, and used the sampling we were doing of "size 9". Now, I have NOTHING in my store in a size 9. However, it returned 448 items in the results, none of which was a size nine anything at all. When I looked for things from the home page for things I knew I had listed in my store, it came back on every item but one as "no results".

When the never-ending drone over the lack of revenue was priming the WP sellers for changes, I really thought they'd be scaling back service and aiming more at the hobby sellers, rather than the business sellers (the ones who sell online for a living, not for fun). I also expected a small price increase of some sort. What we actually got, however, is WP rolling out a 300% price increase for the lowest level store (they claim it is a better deal since there are no FVF's now with the new package) and no promises to fix anything that was broken or to spend a dime on advertising the site. The "free" FVF means nothing to me, since I still won't have sales if someone can't find what we have. My FVF's were not a huge expense in the first place.

That is why sellers are leaving - poor search engines, missing or duplicated categories, and little listening to their concerns. And now, with the additional privilege of paying a 300% price increase mid-year (instead of changes coming in Oct as previously announced), makes WP a very risky venture for most sellers.

Sure, the community there is very nice. I love it myself. The folks are much friendlier as a whole than eBay, and there is less cut-throat stuff going on. Sure, I've been burned there (including someone turning me in falsely as hijacking their account! Good grief), but overall, very nice people.

But when it comes down to my business, nice only goes so far. And if a buyer cannot even find what is listed in the store because of broken or poorly-structured software, then it doesn't matter if it was free - the cost is still too high.

Cult? Not really. It is just a site that has failed to live up to its enormous potential by digging its cyber-heels into the sand and refusing to listen to its customers, the sellers.


Last edited by thekatyworkshop on Thu May 22, 2008 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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purple_reading_giraffe
Location: Indiana, USA
Total posts: 3517

USA US Indiana
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:39 pm   Post subject:   #14  Back to top 

Thanks, Katy. I'm very glad to hear what a long-time, moderately satisfied seller has to say about these changes. Others coming along later will be grateful for the review as well.

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sherrand
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Total posts: 133

Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:04 pm   Post subject:  Re: Is Wagglepop Truly a "Cult" as Claimed by Some #15  Back to top 

thekatyworkshop wrote (View Post): › Not sure how much of a "cult" it is, but I can tell you that management apparently has a deep-rooted fear of success.

They are becoming distinctly more like eBay, all the while claiming they are not. Posts that are not glowing and rosy, or in agreement with all they are doing are now removed. So much for free speech.

Sellers have been openly treated very rudely in the last couple months, with sharp tones, warning emails (their version of a pink slap - does that mean if you get one, you've been "popped"?), general hostility if you dare to question them.

WP expects their sellers to just know what to do, esp on paying their invoices. They don't take into consideration that the eBay refugees are used to money being sucked out of their accounts, so wait for the invoice to be auto-paid. Of course, WP doesn't do the autopay deal (yet). It has been one of their main excuses to boot sellers out of the place. They have closed SO many stores in the last few months, mostly claiming non-payment. So, does that mean WP attracts deadbeats, or that WP is doing a poor job of educating their new sellers? I vote for the latter. Few sellers want to spend time loading a store with merchandise only to walk away from it.

If you ask about it, WP has the same old tired song - "we are tired of the 30-60-90 day sellers", meaning the ones who only give it 1, 2 or 3 months before leaving. Well, that really isn't the real problem there. There are many sellers leaving this year, BEFORE the fee increases, simply because there isn't the traffic or sales to support staying there.

Every time I read the posts from admins, I can't help but think of the Wizard of Oz, and the little man saying "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

I've had an extra store there since 2006 (and yes, I was one who tried the failed 2005 outing too). The new pricing structure is pretty steep for stores with few sales - when I asked if I could keep my account to use for buying should I choose to close my store (I wanted to keep my 100% feedback there) , I was told that my feedback was a "privilege for loyal sellers", and that I'd have to start with a new account if I wanted to buy. Mind you, I've bought AND sold on my current account, but that doesn't matter to WP!

Also, they are having SEVERE search engine problems. When there was a thread with info about it, and people posting their experience with a certain key word search, it was removed by admin as being "anti-community". Um, not really, when search results are the bread-n-butter of the selling community!

Every question is taken as hostile, so it would seem. Don't question anything, don't suggest an improvement or easier way to do something either!

Sellers have been waiting well over a YEAR for additional needed categories. ALWAYS, the excuse is that they haven't had the funds to pay for the category additions on the programming part. Okaaaaayyyy - since you have the entire structure in place, it really can't be that hard to set up another category and assign a different identifier to it. I am not a programming dummy, but admin hopes that everyone is.

I for one, am sick to pieces of being told that there will be no advertising again, being told it is my problem if WP doesn't have any traffic, and that the sellers should be bringing over more people, and listing more things so the site will attract more business.

I've been struggling along at their old rate, most months not even making the rent, but it was still exposure. I had no idea that the real reason so few people buy there is that they cannot FIND anything that is already for sale there. On the above-mentioned store search, I tried my own store, and used the sampling we were doing of "size 9". Now, I have NOTHING in my store in a size 9. However, it returned 448 items in the results, none of which was a size nine anything at all. When I looked for things from the home page for things I knew I had listed in my store, it came back on every item but one as "no results".

When the never-ending drone over the lack of revenue was priming the WP sellers for changes, I really thought they'd be scaling back service and aiming more at the hobby sellers, rather than the business sellers (the ones who sell online for a living, not for fun). I also expected a small price increase of some sort. What we actually got, however, is WP rolling out a 300% price increase for the lowest level store (they claim it is a better deal since there are no FVF's now with the new package) and no promises to fix anything that was broken or to spend a dime on advertising the site. The "free" FVF means nothing to me, since I still won't have sales if someone can't find what we have. My FVF's were not a huge expense in the first place.

That is why sellers are leaving - poor search engines, missing or duplicated categories, and little listening to their concerns. And now, with the additional privilege of paying a 300% price increase mid-year (instead of changes coming in Oct as previously announced), makes WP a very risky venture for most sellers.

Sure, the community there is very nice. I love it myself. The folks are much friendlier as a whole than eBay, and there is less cut-throat stuff going on. Sure, I've been burned there (including someone turning me in falsely as hijacking their account! Good grief), but overall, very nice people.

But when it comes down to my business, nice only goes so far. And if a buyer cannot even find what is listed in the store because of broken or poorly-structured software, then it doesn't matter if it was free - the cost is still too high.

Cult? Not really. It is just a site that has failed to live up to its enormous potential by digging its cyber-heels into the sand and refusing to listen to its customers, the sellers.


Katy, this isn't the first time I've read your words expressing discouragement with WP. I've read them on some recent blogs as well. I must take my hat off to you in that you don't hide who you are. No sock puppet: I am Katy. Bold and upfront. Kudos - that takes guts and I so admire that.

I gather you don't agree with the cult analogy but in a back-handed way you confirmed it. No one can argue with the boss, question the boss without sanction or suggest different strategy to the boss. You kind of admitted this and this conduct that you have been subjected to is well...sort of cultish.

Regardless, you are spot on that many sellers are not buying the spin. A number of founding members, those proud to have carried the icon, have recently left and the exodus isn't over.

All the best of luck Katy. You have the makings of a great seller in an appropriate home. I know you've given your all on WP. Someday you will find a venue that will reciprocate your efforts.

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